The first prototype 3d printed warp Drive fins have been created in ABS and one was tested to destruction, the results showed adequate strength. http://matrixsurfboards.blogspot.co.nz/2013/11/warp-drive-single-fin-for-planet-venus.html Now we have moved on to stronger polycarbonate material: http://matrixsurfboards.blogspot.co.nz/2013/12/warp-drive-blef-foil-single-fin-3d.html http://clicktotweet.com/7O9XE
Request declined and I'm not anti American, I just don't like the current government of the USA and their interference in other countries. This thread's about 3d printing fins, so stay on the topic.
fine..you antisemitic?? ffs can this make your boards do a proper turn? if so ill buy the hot kurl and turn it into a hawt karl.
what material? what printer? maker bot? I dont think it can handle the torque. Can it print around a piece of cloth for added strength? or embed some cloth some how? Can you print W.A.V.E.S.E.T. fins? how much does more it weigh than comparable fins This does have promise but I don't see it having the strength needed
We've tested the weaker ABS version to destruction and the strength is fine, so the polycarbonate should be also. We are also getting laser sintered titanium versions done and they will be just about indestructible. The printer has much higher specs than home printers like the maker bot, the chamber is heated to increase strength and eliminate distortion. By the way printing 'around cloth' would be completely pointless as most of the strength is in the skins and the cloth would be on the neutral axis where it would contribute almost nothing.
That's a singlefin with tab for a standard box, well be doing FCS tabs also, I have the specs somewhere...
Interesting you decided to go with polycarbonate. Are you glassing over it afterward? My experience with polycarbonate (non-surfing applications) is that it does have decent strength and flexibility but will break if repeatedly put under stress--and it seems like the break points are somewhat random. It also seems repeated exposure to sunlight, heating and cooling will degrade it pretty quickly. However, my experience with it is in construction applications...
It looks like a fin from a whale.... I was not aware of the whales warp speed swimming capabilities! lol. I kid. so I work with prototyping machines... looks like your printing base to tip with an addative printing process. my experience is printing this method you have a weaker build as the layers are stacked ontop of one another, the fin will be bending along those build layers. sort of like prefolding a piece of paper before you rip it. but orienting the fin standing on its leading edge would make the layer vertically instead of horizontally which makes a stronger outter shell. Also abs will deform when used in a 3d printer. The MakerBot, while somewhat limited, uses pla which does not deform. Im interested to see how your results continue.... btw how much are you charging for fins, $250,000? ok ok... enough schtick, thanks for posting something of interest!
I don't know anything about the tech, but two obvious and big advantages are the accuracy of the product and the ability to replicate. Materials would be the next question... although even ABS would be suitable for the kind of forces a fin is subjected to on Roy's boards.
I tried asking him that and he didn't answer Also, I have made molds of WAVESET fins and they were too weak, (even using composites that are used to make propellers) the fins were strong 'enough' once I put a sheet of cloth in the mold and then poured it also, it would be great to hear about the methodology of 'tested to destruction'
We've had excellent results with the BLEF foils, the fins can be done with a conventional leading edge also. It's all easily customisable as you know. Yes we are aware of that possible issue, however are using a printer with a heated chamber which improves the bond strength. We've tested an ABS fin to destruction and the layers are well bonded, the strength appears to be sufficient, based on our estimates of the forces on the fin during surfing. Next the polycarbonate is going under the 'hammer' it should be about 50% stronger. Printing horizontally is obviously easier for the machine and does give microgrooves in the direction of the water flow, something we've been after since '99. We also have a laser sintered titanium option, titanium fins will be at least twice as strong as glass and resin fins, and will float. The ultimate material is probably graphene but we'll have to wait for that. My aim is to 3d print the entire board in graphene. The ABS fins we've printed are very nice and are probably strong enough, they are very accurate and there is no detectable deformation. We are not using a home desktop printer. PLA is too weak. All good. Price wise an 8" polycarbonate singlefin will be over $100, there's more to doing t than meets the eye but hopefully it will become cheaper. from a business point of view upgrading of printers to the next level has to be factored in to the price also, and it's not yet quite as simple as pressing the button and walking away, although it's getting there. Laser sintered titanium in the same 8" fin will be around $1500 per fin, we can do up to 10.5" fins with a tab for fin box.
Please please go into detail and provide info and links. I am all over this stuff and Id like to see how this laser sinerting is cost feasible or available now
You'd be surprised at the force which my bigger fins generate, especially the BLEF foils which have high lift coefficients at high angles of attack. It looks cruisy but can be knee buckling at times. Also the polycarbonate fins will be going in our new range of EPS foam based mid length boards, so will be subjected to a fair bit more in terms of angle of attack Calculating the forces by rule of thumb is easy to do but it's harder to know how accurate the calculations are, in the water testing will be the best method, as it always is. The accuracy is pretty astounding. We can apply a particular foil shape and it is reproduced everywhere on the fin, the current RAE102 has a hollow trailing edge which is really difficult to reproduce by hand, but comes out spot on with the printer. We can swap the foil for a different one at any time. We have some pretty far out fins coming up, for example a 'recurve' fin which is an updated version of our bulb tipped flex fins used with tunnels, and looks somewhat like one of Bobby Owens' gull wing type fin ( I had one in the late 70's). Then there will be tunnel fins with FCS tabs. The tabs for a 5 to 6" tunnel will also be able to take quad rear sets, they'll have no toe in. There's no issue with strength when making tunnels as the shape is so stable.
Laser sintered fins are available now ( well in the next week as drawings for the internal structure have to be completed. Cost is high, due to the expense of the machine. No one with a 2 million dollar machine is gong to run it for peanuts. Not worrying about the expense though means that one is free to actually do it, which is a blast! If you have a particular shape you'd like and a couple of k to blow let me know. You'll be able to pass the fin down to future generations no doubt. The laser sintering is also much more accurate, could even be gold plated for those who like to attract sea life or want a wall hanger. the laser sintered surface is matte like shark skin, which is nice, the fin can also be tumbled polished or finished with high gloss clear coating.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131202171920.htm thanks for info Roy, here is some more too
Cool, check this out about graphene, it;s supposed to be harder than diamond, so board bags will only be needed to protect your car and the rocks at your surf spot from damage... http://subscribe.outsiderclub.com/45685?gclid=CN2qkt20obsCFbBdpgodrH0AWQ