Ive been crunching numbers, which hurts Damook's head, but it makes it a bit more understandable when i approach new board purchases. By comparing what i already ride to whats out there, i get a rule of thumb of how low in volume I can go. Interestingly, My smallest volume board is actually my longest. Its a 6'8x19x2 3/8=3610(volume) step up squash that i have not used in along time (not since my last costa rica trip) but i can throw it around like my 6'2x20x2 1/2=3700(volume) swallow firewire. Anyone else obsess over this type of thing? It just puts it in a clearer perspective for me when board shopping. I am 6'0 190 btw. I want the CI MBM, which is 6'4x19 1/8 x 2 1/2 = 3633.75 (volume) which is similar to the 6'8.
just wanted to point out that you did not calculate the volume of your surfboard. You calculated the volume of a block that is 6'2x19 1/8 (tip to tip) x 2.5 (tip to tip). So many factors go into finding a boards actual volume... da mooks head is really going to hurt. I'd say draw it up in one of those board cad programs if you want a legit volume. But your not even close right now. Hope that helps ya, thestud
You can get a rough estimate from modeling with BoardCAD are AKUshaper software or put the board in the bathtub (of it fits), submerge it, and measure the difference in water height. With a little simple math you can figure out the displaced volume. It helps to have someone sink the board and another to measure the water heights with a tape measure or yard stick. Tubs taper a bit but you'll get a 'good enough' volume calculation assuming it's a square cube. ~Brian www.greenlightsurfsupply.com Shape Your Surfing Experience
thinking about it a little deeper, i think you can get decent results this using l*w*d method. Get out a sharpie or piece of chalk and break the board up into sections. Like.. 1. the top two feet or so (of a short board) would be a triangle. Pretty thin. Use the center of the area in question for its thickness, not its thickest or thinnest point. calculate volume of a triangle. volume1= 1/2(base*height) * Length. (length is your thickness, in this case) 2. Take the tail section next. its a trapezoid (probably) determine the thickness the same way as part one. Calculate the volume of the trapezoid. volume2 = (((long side + short side)/2) * rail side length) * thickness. 3. Whats left is the meat. This one you can treat as a square/ rectangle volume3= length of the section * width of the board * thickness of board. Total volume = Volume1 + Volume2 + Volume3
DaMook- I don’t obsess over volume but I do try to calculate approximate volumes of my boards- it is helpful as another data point, like width – thickness etc I followed how you calculated your #’s, but think there might be a little better method so you can compare to the volumes calculated by guys like Coil, Firewire etc who publish the volumes of their boards. I got this from Swaylocks, and I realize it is not EXACT but it provides a close enough number for comparisons. I have compared volumes calculated this way with volumes supplied by shapers and it is usually within 5% (on the high side) and it works better for shorter boards Approx Volume Calculation ½ L x W x T + (10 for each inch over 6’) divide by 60.02 for liters. Liters divided by 28.32 = cu ft Modeling the board in Board CAD or AKU Shaper would obviously provide a better estimate. JN
wow, i thought i was being obsessive!! lee, i got the spins now, i need to puke. Greenlight, I don't think my bathtub is big enough, but is Board CAD free? JTS, ½ L x W x T + (10 for each inch over 6’) divide by 60.02 for liters., sounds a bit easier to get an idea. I don't need exact measurements of volume because all i am doing is comparing boards that i have ridden to ones I would like to ride. do the math for me on this example so i can know for sure how to calculate. 6'8 x 19 x 2.375
I get 31 .4 liters or 1.109 (call it 1.11) cu ft There is also some interesting estimates by guys like Mike Daniels at Coil and an Aussie named Dave - (Diverse surfboards) which talk to appropriate vol for weights and styles of boards. I will see if I can dig them up IIRC MD says .5 Cu Ft per 100 lbs for shortboards (adjust for age/fitness/personal pref) .75 Cu Ft per 100 lbs for hybrids/Fish (adjust for age/fitness/personal pref) You young rippers use less, old bastds like me, like more JN Found the piece I was referring to On one of those 2007 threads I laid out my general guidelines for different types of boards. For shortboards, it's about .50 cubic feet per 100 lbs of rider weight, fishes and hybrids about .75 cubic feet/100 lbs, eggs and mid-lengths 1.00/100 lbs, hp long 1.25/100 lbs, and classic long 1.5+/100 lbs. edit to add that 1 cubic foot = 28.32 liters, I like using cubic feet more because it's easier to see percentage changes. (most shortboard #s run between .70 and .90) Mike Daniels of Coil
Mook, easiest way to dial in your volume is to stick with the same shaper who calculates volume from the start. The Coil guys were really the ones who perfected this process and quite honestly their boards are by far one of the best options available so that is two reasons to order from them. You can order a Coil and Mike and or Kirk will shape it for you. Then they weigh it before glassing. They can calculate the volume based on the known density of the foam used and the weight. But in reality the value they are calculating for you is FLOAT or BUOYANCY not volume because the same volume can be occupied by two different density foams and the float or buoyancy will be completely different. Next time you order you can then tell them to go up or down in volume and you know 100% that is what you are getting because they know what density foam they used on the last board. The same technique applies to shapers who use a CNC machine. They can add or subtract volume to change the float and use the same foam as they did on the last board. There is no other technique that will assure you that your numbers are proportional. One shaper can shape two 6'2" x 18 3/4" x 2 1/4" shortboards and the volume and float can be wildly different. Brian (Greenlight) is a good friend of mine, but sorry man, I don't know any bath tubs that will fit a surfboard. If they make a super big tub like that, I want one, cause it will make bath time action with the lady a lot more manageable. Even AkuShaper or BoardCAD will not guaranty a proper measure of float unless you know the density of the foam used and take A LOT of measurements. However, they will give the best idea of volume you can at home, and they are free. But, keep in mind paddling is NOT proportional to volume. Rocker, bottom contours, planing surface area and foam distribution can play a HUGE part in determining the paddle-ability of a board. Again the best way to dial in what works for you is working with one shaper on that. He will know how to adjust the volume for decreased planing area (ie wider boards) or increased rocker. I may have given you more info than you want, but the basic answer is if you want to look at volume number AkuShaper and BoardCAD are your best bet, but there are enough other factors involved that you are not guaranteed to get it right. Hope all that helps. Basically, if you really want to dial in your boards to work perfectly for you, order a few boards in a row from a shaper like Coil, that is mathematical about design with you. It will make a world of difference in your surfing.
lost boards all have the volume posted next to the off the rack dimensions you can buy them in on their website, i love when shapers post volume.
Mook... Coil's really are the way to go. Once I got my first board from them that had the volume on it, every board I ordered from them was based around that volume, and playing with it on subsequent boards. I have a starting length/ width/ thickness in mind, and then tweak it around the volume. Firewire has caught on and puts the volumes of their boards on their website.
Volume is tricky. Boards with identical volume can paddle and perform completely differently if the foil is changed... if template is changed... if bottom contours are changed... etc. Volume is displacement and displacement is buoyancy. Buoyancy is important, but only gets you so far. It matters most when your just sitting on your board... less when you're paddling... and even less when you're up and planing. A thicker board that has it's volume along the stringer, with thin rails, will perform completely differently than a thinner board with a flat deck and full rails. A lower volume board with flat entry can paddle better than a higher volume board with a lot of entry rocker and a wide nose. Add some vee in that same entry and you have another variable. Take it out in choppy conditions and glassy conditions and you change it up again. It's all relative, Mook... Buoyancy matters, but don't take it out of the context of all the other elements of design. Volume numbers are not a gimmick... they can help yo dial in a board that will be good for you, and gives you something to compare. But a keen eye for curves and foil, and good groping, will tell you a lot more... IMO.
i've been wondering about volume lately as well, & following this thread w/ great interest. i went through my quiver last night & plugged the dims into this calculation & whether it's a reasonable approximation of volume or not, it at least showed me that my boards are proportional to each other, & i even used it on the dims of a board i've been looking at, & it gave me an idea of how it would possibly float me (well, apparently...which sucks, b/c i was kind of looking for an excuse NOT to buy another board). all my boards came out around 1.1+/- 0.02. i didn't bother w/ my log...it's prob. up around 2.0 or something. i'm definitely going to remember this little formula...very useful guide.
yup that's basically my point. I just want to know (judging on what boards I already own) what the smallest board can float me. It takes a lot of guesswork out of a 700$ investment with an added piece of calculation. So, according to JTS's post, if i'm 190 and interested in a shortboard, then I could go as low as a roughly 1.0 cu. ft. . All I need to do is backward calculate and get an initial number in liters and compare that to whats out there. Very cool!!! so for example, a CI MBM+ S2 is 6'2x18.5/8x2.3/8 = .97 cu ft. If I am 190lbs and .5 cu ft = 100lbs, then this board is roughly the lowest volume shortboard i can go. I'm a fat bastiod!!!
Mike Daniels at Coil can give you the exact #. Ballpark is about $ 700 which includes delivery. They stay pretty busy so 8-12 weeks lead time is pretty standard. JN
Standard shortboard is gonna run you $700 shipped to your door. They are not really available off the rack up here other than No Flat Earth in Brick. Coil is located in Florida. The head shaper is Mike Daniel who learned to shape as a student of Jim "The Genius" Phillips. Mike used to shape for WRV and is probably in the top 5 on the East Coast. The other shaper is Kirk Brasington, who along with his brother Eric developed the Coil glassing technology, which is a combination of proprietary fibers and vacuum bagging to obtain a board that weighs no more than a standard high performance poly, but provides significant strength and flex benefits over poly. They are more durable, never yellow, and last longer than poly. 100% hand made in the US. Custom built to order. There is a 256 page thread over at Swaylocks with tons of stoked riders. http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/coil-ride-reports Most guys who buy one, end up selling their whole quiver to build a full Coil quiver. You pay around what you would pay for a new Merrick, but you get a board that will easily last twice as long. They use a stringerless blank that allows the board to flex and respond more lively than a standard stringered board. The high fiber glass job is strong enough to allow for the flex, but flexible enough to snap back quicker than a poly. In my opinion they have solved the corky issues associated with Firewires and Surftechs. Da Mook should consider Coil. But I better not turn this into a Coil thread, so PM me if you have any questions.
in regards to Coils, are they EPS? is it epoxy laminate? Vacuum lamination sounds like expensive ding repairs. This true?
Coil are EPS core epoxy vacuum laminate, but NOT AT ALL like a Surftech. No more expensive to fix than a standard poly or epoxy hand laminate. If someone is charging you more, it's because they are lying to you or don't know what they are doing. I had a small rail shatter once through the finish layer. Laminate was still water tight. Easy fix with a little epoxy and some cloth to seal up the cracks. Quite honestly I have seen VERY few Coils in need of serious repair. Most I see spider cracks on a hit that usually would be a major ding in traditional construction or I've seen a couple snapped boards that were well used and put into heavy conditions. Coils seem to be very immune to the standard dings.
