Epoxy or Fiberglass

depends on your style of surf. epoxy boards have a very stiff feeling. very durable but idk if its me it just doesnt feel right sometimes

 

depends on the type of epoxy you're riding...are you talking about a tuflite style epoxy or a hand-shaped eps blank (like marko foam) & glassed w/ epoxy resin? not all epoxy boards were created equal...

if you're referring to a tuflite style (as i suspect you are), then i say a traditionally constructed polyurethane foam & fiberglass board is the better call. partly out of ethics (see the thread about pop-outs), but mostly b/c i hate the way those pieces of crap ride...any kind of cross chop on the wave & you get this weird chatter going which, if the chop is bad enough, can turn into a kind of surfy "death wobble". not fun.

the 2nd type of epoxy, the eps foam blank, is hand-shaped in the same manner as a poly blank. the only difference is that the blank is lighter & the epoxy resin is stronger. some say that these boards have more float, but i find that to be largely negligable, so you'll want to keep your usual dims. these are certainly stronger, but like all epoxies, a small pain to repair.

 

njsurfer42 nailed it on the head - not all epoxy boards are created equal...

First let's get some common definitions straight:

All surfboards are made with foam, fiberglass, and resin.

2 main types of foam: Polyurethane and EPS

2 types of resin: Polyester and epoxy

Polyurethane foam is glassed with polyester resin. The tradtional style of surfboards. Little heavy and ding relatively easy.

EPS foam is glasses with Epoxy (polyester will melt eps foam). Light and strong.

"Popouts" are EPS/Epoxy construction but not hand shaped therefore are junk.

Tufflites, Boardworks, NSP, etc are classified as pop-outs coming from Asian factories mostly made buy dudes who've never seen the ocean, let alone have surfed.

Popouts are like ping pong balls on water. No flex, bouncy in chop, and not alive.

Not all boards are created equal: Rusty and Stretch among others are some of the big name shapers who really understand how to design an EPS/epoxy board for high performance.

my 2 cents

~Brian
www.greenlightsurfsupply.com

 

I've had a problem with that with my tuf-lite...it doesn't happen all the time, and offshore winds can really make the board do some funky ****...pisses me off a little, I dropped like 700 bucks on the board, it's a beautiful board besides the squirelly ****

 

Here's my biased opinion...

My experience has been a well designed, hand shaped, hand laid-up, EPS/epoxy board will be as high performance as the polyurethane/polyester board, but be slightly lighter and last at least twice as long. Tufflite and other "popouts" might be even more durable, and last even longer, but the performance is compromised significantly.

Early generations of EPS/epoxy boards had issues. Nobody really knew what design adjustments had to be made to compensate for the difference in the physical properties of the materials. Once that happened, things evolved pretty rapidly, and boards improved greatly. Then, along came surfboard specific foams and epoxy resins, and the whole game changed again. Close tolerance, pressure molded blanks, custom rockers and stringers, UV stable resins with very specific flex and strength parameters, and improved workability of those resins lead to a huge leap in EPS/epoxy surfboard performance and durability. Suddenly, we had the best of both worlds... a performance surfboard that was more ding resistant and more snap resistant, that could be custom shaped, and glassed to the user's specifications.

Do they feel EXACTLY like PU/PE? No. Do they look as pretty when tinted, glossed and polished? No. Are they more expensive? Yes. Do you have to be careful about heat extremes? Yes. Are they harder to build and repair? Somewhat.

Do they turn, tuberide, punt, catch waves, and all that other good stuff? Oh... you bet they do.

 

i have a hand shaped epoxy it is my favorite board, i ride it better than any other of my boards, but i do agree that the tuflite stuff feels wierd

 

it's a glorified pool toy.

 

you still haven't specified which TYPE of epoxy construction you're looking at...

 

Sounds like traditional construction, not a "tufflite" type composite sandwich construction.

What is the brand? Can you see the stringer?

 

I wish I had have known that b4 I bought it...lol
It's a 6'4" Al Merrick Flyer Tuf-Lite...regardless of the fact, I have got some pretty good rides on it....the only time I really notice it wobbling out of control on me is when I try to go straight down the face of a wave and bottom turn, as long as I pop into a wave on an angle it seems to be fine and I will say the thing flies

anybody want to buy a 6'4" Al Merrick Tuf-Lite Flyer for $500...It's practically brand new, no dings, DaKine traction pad....I really wish I had have bought a PU

 

nothing like a poly, ive tried it all.. in the gutless small stuff i would consider an eps blank. sometimes theyre to light, also go with a shaper thats been working with it for a while.. im loving resinx and a poly blank

 

I've owned one pop out (Southpoint) and one hand-layed epoxy (Vernor). What bothered me about both is their weight. They're too light for anything but the cleanest swell (for my taste). I've found the same in a PU Fishcuit, too, however. The lightweight boards...PU or epoxy...ride the same to me: Corky.

Personally, I feel the inertia of a heavier PU foam board with 6oz/6oz & 6oz glass maintains the speed if I pick the wrong line through the wave, which I do often (What can I say...Kelly Slater, I'm not). Heavier boards also slice through textured or choppy waves better, in my opinion. My knees get rocked when I use epoxy or a lightweight PU board.

Like exilenj, I would consider trying an another epoxy board specifically for clean 1-2 ft surf, but I'd only get a longboard knowing that I would only use it in cases of summer desperation.....like the past month and a half.

If you're young, light and looking to punt some airs in waist-high (and above) waves, consider an epoxy. If you're looking for a board that you will want to use in almost every wave condition, however, go PU. Just my 2 cents...

 

I have said this before, but I have not had any luck with “high performance” EPS epoxies. Their weight distro is much different than traditional boards. The loose tons of Torque in big surf while you are changing direction…. They slide out on really drastic bottom turns that take a tight angle…. They feel way to light to power surf, so really the high performance epoxies that I have ridden were good for one thing: Airs… I will admit that it added a few inches to the most simple of airs. But to me, it was really hard to spin the board in the air at all. You can aim a straight frontside air down the line and land it, but if you try and dig your tail in and get some spin action before your fins release, it never worked. It would pop out sideways and I would hit strange angles…

The only epoxy board of any kind that I stuck with and was SUPER fun was an EPS epoxy, handshaped shortboard/fish hybrid. It had a nice big swallow on it, about 5’9x20.5 or so… So it was short, fat, fast as hell… I lost some performance in my quick turns etc, but that is because of the fishy shape, not really the materials. But normal cutbacks, floaters, airs, everything. This little board was perfect because it RIPPED in good surf, but the light weight really didn’t matter in choppy, windy, smaller surf, because it had enough over all foam volume that it always floats, gets great speed etc….

So, I think epoxy has it’s place nowadays, but it may not be ready for maintstream high performance surfing…

For an average surf, who isn’t out everyday looking for crazy performance, then an epoxy board is perfect. It is durable, light, easy to transport. This is especially true if you are riding funshapes, eggs or smaller long boards… Because the minor performance details are not as apparent.

But if you are a veteran shortboarder, who is comfortable with traditional PU boards with thruster setup etc, then be careful with epoxy… I think the key to epoxy may also be patience… Where the boards ride just differently enough to make things frustrating… When I first rode my epoxy fish hybrid thing, it took me days to really dial in the feeling of the materials… And it took me riding the board every day in small surf for like 3 weeks before I finally had a breakthrough and figured out how the thing worked. You just have to take sharper tighter angles and then the thing was going airborn… But it took me everyday for weeks before I made the connections on how to get the best performance out of it…. But if you cant surf everyday, or have lack of swell all the time, these epoxy boards may drive you nuts. You really need to spend a lot of quality time on one to get it dialed in. And once a week or a few times a month wont do the trick….

But after that long pointless story, I guess my point is that I have no more epoxies in my quiver. I stopped getting them shaped because I was sick of dedicating so much time and study on a board when I should be doing much more surfing than thinking. So, im back to riding 7 different boards all with basically the exact same dimensions, each with an inch difference in length from 5’10-6’2. So, maybe im boring, but Epoxy has just never panned out for me. They can be fun, but novelty fun… not slashing/ripping fun.

 

Well said, Zach... There's absolutely a learning curve involved, particularly if you're an experience, above average shortboarder who's got PU/PE dialed in. And that's a serious consideration when you're dropping a lot of money for a new board, and living in a place where there's more unsurfable days than surfable. Like going from a thruster to a quad or twin, there's an adjustment period. Some people can make that adjustment after a few waves, some a few sessions, and some just can't ,or can, but don't like the feel, period. EPS/Epoxy does not feel like PU/PE... it's not supposed to and it never will.

I surfed nothing but PU/PE for almost 30 years, and today, all my shortboards are hand shaped and glassed EPS/Epoxy. For me, they allow me to elevate my performance, not limit it. But I've never been, and never will be, a one-board surfer. I like mixing it up and ride all kinds of shapes and sizes (except mid-lengths... they don't do anything well, IMO).

But I will confess...my log, and my big wave board, are both PU for the exact reason you stated... I like the added weight and momentum.

 

Didn't want to repeat all of your posting since you've said it before!

What you didn't say is whether or not you have experimented with different stringers and multiple stringers in your EPS/epoxy boards as a way of balancing the weight distribution and flex/rigidity characteristics?

 

Sounds like those $300 "buy it now" no-name brand ads on e-bay. Hopefully your not considering one of those. "Quality 5'8 Epoxy Retrofish Surfboard Quad Fin" sounds like it was written by, and for, someone clueless on boardmaking.

 

something i just caught on to (& i'm embarrassed that it took this long, i really should've caught it immediately) is that the last line of the add states that the board has "double barrel to v concave in the tail." wtf does that even mean? vee is the exact opposite kind of bottom contour of a concave. & what exactly is a double barrel? i mean, sure, it sounds good...but what is it? & why the caps lock? it's like the ad writer is "yelling" to try to cover up the bs. the "fcs compatible" bit gives me pause, too. oh, & you can't hand shape fiberglass. it's the foam you shape, not the glass.

i would stay well away from anything these folks are selling. why try to buy a board on the internet anyway? cruise down to your local surf shop & talk to someone who knows about surfboards. the ding repair guy is always a safe bet.