How does swell info work?

Discussion in 'All Discussions' started by BassMon2, Jan 5, 2016.

  1. BassMon2

    BassMon2 Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2015
    I'm not complaining or saying I got skunked. I know how to read buoys and all the rest of the info involved in determining if I'm going surfing or not.

    But today stirred a question up in my mind. How do these forecasting models actually work? Reason I ask is this. First off, I'm on LI. Swell info was showing a shoulder high wave today. Still is. Buoy was showing between 6-7 feet this AM. Winds are hard offshore. Swell height is 0. Wind wave was that 6-7 ft. Checked cams, flat. Checked in person, flat. Like I knew it would be. But I got the day off so I was just double checking. Now I could be wrong but under these circumstances I always assumed the wind is blowing waves away from shore. Hence the "false" buoy reading. Regardless of whether I'm right about that or not, it's always flat under those circumstances.

    So my question is why the shoulder high forecast? You'd think a forecast model would be able to figure that out, no? If they work solely off the buoy height it makes sense, but that seems a bit unsophisticated. Again, not complaining. I was able to figure it out myself. Just wondering

    Discuss
     
  2. Sandblasters

    Sandblasters Well-Known Member

    May 4, 2013

  3. rcarter

    rcarter Well-Known Member

    Jul 26, 2009
    I would imagine the algorithm used takes into account wave height and period mainly to estimate wave size at shore. Just as it cannot factor in what tide changes and bathymetry may do to a wave I don't think it factors in what wind will do to size. I may be totally wrong here as this is just my guess. Maybe Mr. SI will let us know?
     
  4. Barry Cuda

    Barry Cuda Guest

    The forecasts for today here in NH by SI was for head high surf.
    Today we have shin to knee high.
    Flipping a coin works just as well......
     
  5. seldom seen

    seldom seen Well-Known Member

    Aug 21, 2012
    Bass..I've noticed the same. My guess is this. For you guys and o barry, the model musta thought there would be a greater easterly component. Just looking at the difference b/t the LI/NH/RI forecast. They have RI as flat, which it is.

    Why the software can't detect that it didn't happen and adjust accordingly, I reckon I don't know about that.
     
  6. Barry Cuda

    Barry Cuda Guest

    We have to keep in mind, these are computer "models".
    Same goes in "climate change" arguments.....computer modeling comprises a great number of the "studies". They are crap, evidenced by simple wave forecasting. Same thing.
    So...back to coin flipping.....
     
  7. seldom seen

    seldom seen Well-Known Member

    Aug 21, 2012
  8. Barry Cuda

    Barry Cuda Guest

    Ouiji Board??
     
  9. Sandblasters

    Sandblasters Well-Known Member

    May 4, 2013
    U mean 0 emazz
     
  10. JayD

    JayD Well-Known Member

    Feb 6, 2012
    I think this has much to do with it. For VA/NC it will howl NW>N>NE....the timing of such will determine swell direction/height etc. SS hit the big question...why does it not adjust as the data changes in close to real time. I have noticed this same phenomenon when tropical systems are approaching the coast.
     
  11. Barry Cuda

    Barry Cuda Guest

    The data is probably entered by human fingers on a key board.
     
  12. Peajay4060

    Peajay4060 Well-Known Member

    Nov 14, 2011
    This is just an opinion.
    So data is collected and entered into an algorithm right? So it is basically a mathematic equation making a prediction on the data it collects. The data changes all the time especially with wind swells. sometimes the variables change and a waist high wave may be shoulder high or vice versa There was an all or nothing type deal today. a few degrees in swell direction meant the difference between a good wave and dead flat.

    that's why it is always worth a look. could have rolled up to a good time with no one on it.
     
  13. DawnPatrol321

    DawnPatrol321 Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2012
    ^^^ This makes the most sense. That swell angle is key. For example, too much North or South in the swell direction, at least here, can cause it to run parallel with shore or near parallel and not produce a wave near shore. Adjust this theory according to your coast line and what direction it faces in accordance with the swell / wind angles.

    Also, if it's blowing hard offshore it could be knocking down any swell energy coming in if the swell is not strong enough to oppose the wind or if the angle isn't direct enough of a hit. Or something like that...
     
  14. Mr.Belmar

    Mr.Belmar Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2010
    Just drive the Belmar- it's always at least head high
     
  15. BassMon2

    BassMon2 Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2015
    That actually makes sense. Obviously swell direction is a big factor. Because of the big difference in what was forecasted and what was, made me assume they weren't talking that into consideration. The fact that a few degrees could cause a hit or miss situation didn't enter my mind. Thanks peajay!
     
  16. nynj

    nynj Well-Known Member

    Jul 27, 2012
    if you're 23' tall
     
  17. Barry Cuda

    Barry Cuda Guest

    You will always lose with Cramer picks!!
     
  18. Peajay4060

    Peajay4060 Well-Known Member

    Nov 14, 2011
    At least you looked. I got up this morning to check and stepped outside and said forget it. friggin cold this morning.
    If you got the day off I think I know a place that might be doing something. requires a drive and it might not be doing anything.....but it's a good drive.
     
  19. Wavestrom

    Wavestrom Well-Known Member

    477
    Jul 5, 2014
    How frequently are the forecasts updated? I've seen it change over the course of a day, but never really tracked how many changes per day there are and when they happen.
     
  20. seldom seen

    seldom seen Well-Known Member

    Aug 21, 2012
    Every 6 hours dawg, 6 & 12.