Hydroflex vs Epoxy vs Stringerless Carbon Boards

There are so many variables it's hard to make a clear judgement on a lot of these techs. For example, PU vs. EPS core. And then you have to consider what weight core in either material. Just those variables alone can determine whether or not vac bagging will result in a lighter/stronger board than a properly hand laminated board.


I haven't tried the Hydroflex tech, so I can't speak on that. But I can say that if it's true that the cloth used has a "root" of glass fibers that gets pulled down into the foam when bagged, it theoretically will create a stronger bond between skin and core. The claimed result would be less chance of delaminating over time. However, if you put a layer of glass down over sealed EPS that's not "3D" glass and has no "root" (standard E or S glass) it will never delam anyway... so what's the point? Delamination is really only an issue over PU foam... and that happens with both epoxy and poly resin.

As for stringers vs. stringerless... the only reason why a stringer is there is for snap resistance. You can... and I have... replaced stringers with a variety of other options, including carbon (either down the center line, around the rails, or a combination of both), "springers" (a flat horizontal rather than vertical, reinforcement in the center of the core) and unidirectional fiberglass down the center line. They have varying degrees of effectiveness and different feels, but they all have the same goal... to increase snap resistance and control flex, nose-to-tail, rail-to-rail, and torsional.

And that's your question... which tech you prefer depends on your goals: Do you want a board that's durable? stiff and responsive? flexible? and if flexible, what kind of flex are you looking for? (Most manufacturers say their boards have a "better flex pattern" and never indicate what that means.)

My personal preference depends on what kind of board... Grovelers and shortboards - Hand laminated epoxy over EPS with a wood stringer or unidirectional carbon tape. Big wave boards and longboards - hand laminated poly over stringered PU.

 

I have a Hydroflex "Natural" board (epoxy over stringered PU foam). They're vacuum bagged, so all the excess resin is removed, creating a lighter board than if it were just slapped on.

The "rooted fibers" is real...but, of course, exaggerated a bit to sell the tech. It takes about twice as much force to get a significant ding, but it will delam just like standard PE resin. However, pressure dents wont delaminate...even over PU foam.

Lighter paddles easier and is therefore good in a groveler....but, I don't like the ultra-lightness of EPS foam in small waves, since it carries so much less momentum once up and riding (can't generate quite as much speed as I can with a little more weight). When it comes to grovelers, there's an ideal weight balance parameter and, imo, Hydroflex Natural achieves that...and more. I would buy again.

 

That's the downside to using "too much" carbon, or putting it in the wrong places... if you're after a more flexible board.

Also... XTR is extruded polystyrene foam, whereas EPS is expanded polystyrene foam. Delamming due to excessive heat can happen to both types of foam, but is much more prevalent in extruded foam. Whatever you do, fix your dings in either case, and make sure they are COMPLETELY dry before repairing.

 

Yea... that's where the confusion lies. There's no such thing as closed cell EPS... all EPS is expanded beads of plastic that are fused together with steam. Extruded foam is truly closed cell, as it's foamed plastic that is produced in one solid slab. Extruded foam doesn't "breathe" like EPS, which has minute spaces between the beads. Higher quality expanded foam has little to no space... cheaper expanded foam... particularly billet foam... has lots of space. That space can suck up resin during the laminating process, if not properly sealed, making a heavier board. Some impregnation is good, because it creates a stronger bond between skin and core. That's the trick... getting the sealing process just right.

XTR has little to no resin impregnation into the core... it's a surface bond only, without intentional texturing of the core to increase mechanical bond.... which is why it's more sensitive to delaming conditions.

 

Threads like this are while I never be an abandonnere. Surfing talk\knowledge that's way above the average.

 

I've got two boards with Marko EPS, a Stretch and one shaped and glassed by Jimmy Keith (local guy to me, I'm 90% sure on the foam), and I've got to say I like them. Not quite as much as lightly glassed PU/PE, but the durability factor is a big plus for me--I am by no means a top level pro. I'm intrigued by your experience with XTR, though. You haven't also ridden anything with a Varial Foam core, have you?

 

I've was a huge fan of EPS when I had my first Greenroom board by Jimmy Keith. Since then, its been hit or miss... not a fan of Firewire, but have loved my Pyzel epoxy boards. For me, what has worked best depends on the cleanness of the wave. If waves are glassy and smooth, I love a short epoxy board. The woolier the wave, the move I like a heavier poly board.

Sheet glass... how do you like your HR? I have a 6'6" which I love in lined up waves... did you go short or long?

 

I assume you mean GR, as in Greenroom Epoxy right? I got a 5'10" from Jimmy about 2 1/2 years ago, and it's still in pretty great condition. Here's the deck after I cleaned it off this spring: http://imgur.com/iPljvpe. It's been a pretty good board to me for what we get around where I live. I've got no real complaints.

 

I was thinking to make a board out of airplane aluminum. Hollow board of course.
Question is: how does one flatten out the rivets so they won't rip a wetsuit?
Discuss.....

 

Try an aluminum wetsuite.

 

Very good and very creative!!!
But there could be a problem with that......

 

Yep, greenroom. I don't have mine anymore. I had a 5'8" bullet several years ago. I was also asking about your FCD Huevo... That's what I currently have in 6'6".

 

Hollow wave boards were aluminum and pos as well ,clunky and noisey paddling them , and a ding on them was a serious issue couldnt repair them with normal means so that was it for most but they were pop outs all same basic shapes and outlines just few different sizes and then there was the sinking issue

 

Ah, I don't have one of those, never ridden one. Think that was Gaffer who has one.

 

Im glad you guys are so facinated with the cutting edge of chinese technology ,Dale velzey,hobie alter and the boys would be proud

 

Varial is an all 'merkin company, I think.

 

Guy i surf with built a board from eps foam scraps and some other leftover materials he got from a boat yard ,shaped a 6 ft fishy simmonslike monster with some of his own design features on it . I mean it looks stitched together but it is a wave catching machine and he can tear it up with that thing. Thats cutting edge research right there