Mixing Fins on a Quad setup...

you know, I had the same issue on bottom turns when I first started riding a quad. I found that I had to adjust my bottom turn a little. Instead of going real hard off the bottom turn, I had to angle myself in to the wave and make a bit less dramatic bottom turn. The trade off for me was that the board seems to hold better on steep, hollow waves, but that I lost the ability to really kill it on bottom turns. My fins are set up waaaay toward the rails (I'm riding a fish) but the board is fast and fun. Not that great for real powerful surf though. Most of the everyday (knee high to head high) that we get down here, works great. I opt for the thruster when it gets more consequential than that.

I'm sportin' FCS G-6 on the front and G-1000's on the rear. Don't know if that helps or just further con volutes the issue.

Anyone have any comments on that? Maybe my technique needs work so I don't suffer the same issues as my colleague above?

 

"Killing it" on the bottom turn... hmm.

Anyway... keep in mind that THE main difference between a quad and a thruster is speed through turns. The trailing fin on a thruster scrubs off speed. The rear fin on a quad adds leverage and drive. What you're used to is the tail sort of washing out on the turn... scrubbing speed and allowing you to crank into a tighter radius turn. A quad, on the other hand (with the proper fins and fin placement) will conserve speed through the entire turn, opening up the turning radius, but giving you that "squirt" of speed you're not used to.

Make that extra drive and speed your friend... it adds heaps of knee buckling power to your surfing, especially if you're a bigger guy who can handle the Gs. Ironically, though, you'll throw less spray... if that's the kind of thing you're into. Big buckets of spray mean loss of speed. A quad is more efficient, so it's a lot smoother and faster through the turn.

As for fins... mix it up. A lot. You'll never know what's right for you without trying a bunch of combinations. There are no rules. Do what feels right for you.

 

Awh man for sure give every fin you have a try! There aint no rules in having fun. I have a 5 fin convert board and I'll try huge fronts with tiny trailers, or all 4 same size, or all smalls, or large on one side and small on thd backside. You gotta keep it fresh and fun bro. Try 50/50 s or 80/20 s or flats on thd fronts and rears. You are the only one who decides what works for you. If you dont believe that, then i got this sick Channel islands that will for sure make you surf just as good as slater, I'll even throw in a little center fin for $10000000.

 

Did you have the same problem when you had the M3s in the rear???? Could be the JW's in the rear.The JW's have a similar base, depth and area as a front fin in a quad set. Most rears in a quad are much smaller and dont have a flat foil like the JW's. The squirt you referenced before comes from the rear fins. To eliminate the squirt try different fins in the rear. If you go to the FCS website they will give you all the info on what different size and shape rears do for your board. They give illustrations on drive, turning radius and so on when you change rear fins. A rear with an 80/20 or 70/30 foil will result in a loose rear so if you dont like the squirt you can tighten it up with a 50/50 foil rear. If you are riding 7's which is alot of fin(Usually designated for a heavier guy) try 5's instead with the 3's. I run 205 to 210lbs and have a set of 7's paired with 50/50 foil GX's in the rear but only use them on big days for a little more control. Any other day I run 5's in the front and vary the rear set from time to time. I personally like to run Q1's in the rear because I ride heavy volume boards and they, in addition to board design, give me great pivot in turns. You most likely wouldnt use them cause they have the squirt that you were refering to. Best thing is to go to the site and check the guides to see what you think will work best for you otherwise you'll end up buying a crapload of fins with half of them that you dont really like.


http://surffcs.com/us/products/fins/Quads.aspx

 

good thread ,,,great info ... Fitz , I think Rider65 is referring to the foil (50/50) (80/20) of the fins not the front/rear size ratio...
I really love the quads ,but it may take a little different approach and a more time to get things dialed in but it's worth it !

The outline of the board, the fins,the composition ,the placement ,the foil, the rider, the surf all play a big part in the ride.... I am 6'1" 190 lbs. My boards: # 1 is a 5'10" HP shape I settled on PC-7 front GX rears ..that board is fast and easy to ride. # 2 is a 5'8" rusty dwart ,,,thicker ,wider.. I like the stretch quad set on that board ...the rears are set closer to the stringer,not out on the rail so you get a predictable hold and release. the narrow tail combined with the rear fin placement make vertical turns easy on that board. #3 Is a 5'6" fishcuit ...the fattest of the bunch and the hardest for me to ride.I use the stretch quad fronts and 375 pivots in the rear. It used to be difficult to turn on the backhand as you described , but LESS fin solved that for me as the tail is so wide it might be not as easy to turn. #4 Hanel Quad fish with the LOKBOX system ... this allows you to move the fins fore and aft to really fine tune the ride.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes ~

 

cranking a tighter turning radius is a more articulate way to put it for sure. thanks for the explanation, even if it was while poking a little fun at me for my lingo. only been on the quad a few months.

 

What's the difference in performance between riding a swallow tail set up with quad fins as opposed to a squash?

 

To me, it's essentially the same difference as you'd feel if you were comparing a swallow and a squash with a thruster setup. All other things held constant, meaning... if you took a squash tail, and just notched out a swallow, you'd have less planing surface. This means the tail would more easily engage on a turn (people call it "more bite") and would add more control at speed.

However... you have to be careful making that comparison, because all other factors and generally not held constant. Usually you see swallow tails on boards that have wider tails (measured a foot up) designed for smaller waves. These boards will have generally straighter outlines from the widepoint back for gutless surf, but if the tail's too wide behind the fins, you get what I call a "skipping stone" effect... you lose responsiveness, and it gets too hard to get on a rail when you get going fast. To compensate, you use some kind of relief feature... some kind of cutout tail shape, like a swallow, bat, crescent... to reduce planing surface.

 

Absolutely right Henny..........MFitz73 we are talking about fin foil. Look at the center fin for a thruster and that is a 50/50 foil. 80/20 has IFT or inside foil technology where the flat side is actually scooped or has a small concave in it. And ofcoarse Flat is well..... flat. If you put 50/50 foil rears in your quad setup you will have more control and less squirt which is what your complaint was all about. The fins that came with your board to me are still kinda big except for on big days. If you have a fish I would reccomend the SF4 Quad set http://surffcs.com/us/products/fins/Quads/SF4Quad.aspx . Very stable yet very responsive and just a great fin for a fish design. For a shortboard I would go with the Q-5xc fins since they have the GX's in the rear with the 50/50 foil. If you are bent on keeping the M7's then just pick up a rear set of GX's with 50/50 foil. http://surffcs.com/us/products/fins/Quads/Q-5Xc.aspx .Hope this helps you out. Im also curious to just what exactly your board dimensions are also.

 

That's by far the best description of the difference between quads and thrusters I ever read.

Kudos to you kind sir, you just won the internetz.

 

I had the same problem with quads and would slide out quite a bit especially on a hard bottom turn when it was bigger. no joke, i got one of those knubsters and it has made all the difference in the world. this past weekend i was out on a board thats really meant to be ridden in waist up to about head high. well it was a lot bigger than head high and i threw in that knubster and it was a gem. been doing this for about 6 months and it works like a charm. ill usually throw that in when it gets above chest high and its breaking kinda hard.

 

Back in October I purchased a quad fish/shortboard hybrid with a rounded pin tail. I am using a set of FCS PC-7 fiberglass honeycomb fins up front with G-XQ trailers. That combo has a ton of speed and drive but maintains control when going fast in better surf. It does struggle a bit in the small stuff however. The rounded pin has more "bite" on bottom turns, especially when I'm killing it, and doesn't spin out. I feel like this set up, at least in good surf give me the best of both worlds. The speed and response of a quad without the instability on turns.

 

Im glad this thread came up. Im having a board built and im considering a 5 fin set up. The question is I already have a set of Fcs M-5's, which is a medium fin, would it be wise to get a large set of fins say like a Fsc M-7's or any large size for that matter, and run the 7's up front and the 5's in the rear, or spend the extra money and get a 5 fin set, Im 6'-0' and go 220 lbs.

 

I'm 240lbs and really like the PC7's in front with the GXQ trailers. I was riding a PC5's with GXQ trailers which were good, but noticed a real difference in hold, climb, and response (feel free to dog me for not sprechenzie dee lingetee) in the larger fins. Maybe I'm imagining things but I really do feel a difference with the larger stiffer fins. If you put 7's in the front and 5's trailing, it might make the board a little stiff. But, like NJSurfer says, do what feels good.

That said, every time I spend the money on good equipment, I'm almost always satisfied and glad I did. When I try to save a few bucks and be cheap, I usually regret it. So my opinion is to go ahead and buy the nice 5 fin set. You're buying a new custom board after all.

 

Might as well go all the way, you talked me into it Kahuna it doesn't make sense not to, really its only about 40 clams more, and its the right thing, what the hell.

 

+1
Quad fin set up with nubster in center.